The DPS Death Knight and their tanks

So, after tanking with more than one or two death knights in a group I've noticed a few things that I'd like your guys input on. My death knight is currently 69 still with no plans to level any time soon. One 80 is more than enough for me these days. Mostly they are tank gripes As always there are well played death knights and the not so well played. These questions come from my limited DK experience and from a great deal of experience over the last month tanking various things with death knights of varying level.

Death and decay: Aweome looking spell but read the tool tip. It says it's a high threat skill and the damage is minimal for the runes it costs. So why is it that every DK out there wants to use this at the start of every pull? Sometimes before the mobs even get in melee range. I found it more effective as a tanking tool and as dps would rather spend my runes on something else. Is it really that good for dps or does the flashy spell effect make everyone drop it left and right?

Death Grip: This is an incredible tool to grab runners, strays that don't come to the tank, casters that can't be line of sighted and so on. The downside is it forces a mob to attack you for several seconds so you better be able to take a hit. The annoying part is the DK who thinks they should use it just because it's there.

Strangulate: I gotta start remembering to mark for this. Shutting down a caster forcing them to run to you is great. Feel free to remind your tanks you can do this from range and that you have it in the first place. So what's the negative thing here? It seems like many people don't bother with it during a pull and will only use it when told.

Mindfreze: Same deal as strangulate really. DK's in general need to learn they have that spell.

We murlocs are generally the folks who are a step above and Anarath is the only guild DK i've run with enough lately and he's a stellar example of good DK's. So really I'm looking for knowledge/advice for what to do about the other death knights I'm finding myself with lately. Be it friends or.. *gasp* PUGS!

Side note.. how many of you who want to do an instance will actually go outside the guild these days? I know previously a large portion of murlocs never used lfg or whatever but are things better now with Wrath?

Death and Decay: Yeah, ever DK tank I've run with yet, aside from myself (those few times I tank on my Dk) uses this religiously. I don't see a need for it, as I've found that (if the DPS is less than halfway braindead) Icy Touch-Plague Strike-Pestilence-Bloodboil is a more fun way to start a pull AND has the bonus that nothing has (yet) been pulled off of me when I do that, except for some other jackass in Frost Prescence (back to braindead DPS, eh). For DPSing, well, that spell's too expensive for my tastes. Yeah, the runes cooldown, but it still costs three runes, and if I have three runes not on cooldown, it means I'm NOT doing my job very well.

Death Grip: I'm always fussing DKs for using this. "You spank it, you tank it" is the stance I take on this.

Strangulate/Mindfreeze. Guilty as charged of even forgetting I have these spells. Then again, 99% of the time, the mob's dead before it can cast, so....I end most pulls with full Runic Power cause things die before I can use any.

We Murlocs do seem to always be a step ahead of the rest, at least in quality. I have yet to run with any other DKs in the guild, and while it may seem like bragging, I'm disappointed that only one DK yet has beat mine on the damage meters (He seemed to be rocking "The" Unholy spec, like the "Best DPS spec zomg" Unholy Spec). Hell, last night a DK tank left the party when my DK, three levels lower, was keeping pace...(at least, in my mind that's why he left, cause there seemed to be no other reason).

And as for pugging outside the guild? Soon as I log on and until I log off for the night, I'm sitting in the LFG. It's really the best way to meet people inside the game, and consequently meet more good players (and horrible ones.....). Sadly, it's back to how it was where Heroics were the only groups that can be found, generally, and lower levele instance groups get boned.

Death and Decay: Guilty as charged. When in a group, I toss a D&D right after the tank has picked up initial threat (assuming they've got good AoE threat, like a Paladin). I'm not worried about actually drawing aggro, due to abilities like Subversion... I use it to pick up some Runic Power off the get go. Yeah, I suppose I could skip it and just begin with Icy Touch and such... ~shrug~ but I use it anyway. I don't find that it draws from my Rune pool too much... since I toss a Blood Tap right away, anyway. If you find it obnoxious, just let me know, and I'll cut it out.

Death Grip: I've never used it in a group except to try to catch the occasional runner, or possibly a caster. I'm not stupid enough to pull a 3-second aggro from something if I don't have to.

Strangulate / Mindfreeze: I rarely use Strangulate, as well... about as often as I use DG, I guess. On the other hand, I try to throw a Mind Freeze in there constantly, for every spell cast when I have the cooldown available. If I know what to expect from a mob, I make sure to save it for, like, the Forked Lightnings and stuff of that nature. And especially heals. And for places like the Violet Hold, those damnable Sheeping guardians ><

Raise Dead: How much do you see this? Other than Unholy-specced DK's, obviously. Personally, I'm at a point where I NEVER use it... the most use I get out of it is occasionally in Wintergrasp I'll pop it then Death Pact it for some emergency health. However, when in a group, I do use it every time we loose a party member ('cept Shamans, generally)... I popped Daikorg back to life on our last trip to the Halls of Lightning... and most people love it ^_^ I save it strictly for those kinds of situations. As tanks (and other DPSers), what are your thoughts on that?

And thanks for the kind works, Yyrk. ^_^ I try to get about as awesome as can be. As a matter of fact, on that HoL run I just mentioned, I actually out-DPS'ed Daikorg. Oh, I was pleased with that. I was in Blood Presence half the raid, until Daikorg passed me up.. then I switched to Unholy and eased my way back in front of him. Dunno how it works that way, as Blood has +15% damage, while Unholy just has 15% haste. The haste, btw, only works for Auto-attack (white) damage... as it doesn't affect Rune cooldown or anything else. Although the 0.5sec Global Cooldown reduction does make a nice difference.

I haven't PUG'ed much, myself... I've mostly just been running quests, and haven't done all that many Instances. I tend to answer the call when the Guild is looking, but I haven't much sought out a group. I'm getting to the point where I want to start raiding more, though ... now that I've done most of the quests in Icecrown and Storm-Peaks, and I'm just running dailies here and there. I finally got my Blacksmithing up to 341, so I can craft a few epic items... I want to run some dungeons and raids soon, to see the rest of the content I've missed.

Death and Decay: I'd forgotten that it generates RP (similar to Warriors using Bloodrage, right?). However, I'm guessing the other reason that it is always used is that it provides damage to multiple targets without a lot of fuss (provided the tank is good). I've run a few instances with a few of the same people going through Northrend, and the Death Knight I've run with always had me beat on the total damage done, thanks in no small part to Death and Decay, I'm sure. (I had the better DPS overall, though, so yay.)

Death Grip: The last time I've seen anyone really using it when they shouldn't was back when it was new, and everyone who had it kept it on cooldown. Otherwise, I'd say it's definitely tailor-made for tanks and off-tanks and DPS really should move that button away from their main action bars. The few tanks I've run with tend to take consideration that the Death Knight is there and able to pull, and they get their own raid mark when they're needed. Just like any other class with some form of CC or creature manipulation, it's up to the one calling the shots to determine when it should be used in a proactive fashion.

Strangulate / Mindfreeze: We expect Rogues to Kick, Warriors to Pummel, Shamans to Earth Shock, Mages to Counterspell, Shadow Priests to Silence... what makes you Death Knights so special? Get in there and start Force-choking stuff already!

Raise Dead: I've seen them summoned from non-Unholy specs prior to bosses for additional damage, and I've seen them used during to get a party member back up and fighting, sorta. It has plenty of uses, just takes a smart Death Knight to sort them out and use them when they arise. Some people just love Corpse Explosion, though.

Nickoli wrote:

And as for pugging outside the guild? Soon as I log on and until I log off for the night, I'm sitting in the LFG. It's really the best way to meet people inside the game, and consequently meet more good players (and horrible ones.....).

How true the words you speak are! How did you become a murloc anyway eh? Last time I checked it wasn't an option at character creation Not saying that we should never have guild groups. I prefer them. What I am saying is ever since Wrath's launch I've found pugging to be easier and I've made some great friends. Some of them have even become Murlocs just because they're amazed at our friendliness mostly. Remember, friends have friends too and that leads to even more groups!!

I don't think we ever came out and said it but it's not necessary to always send people to the forums to apply now. If you have the power to guild invite and you really feel they'd make a great murloc and are ready to vouch for them just send them a guild invite. If you're not entirely sure about them that's what the forums are for. That''s the way things are now because why have such a formal application process for a casual guild? If you don't have invite power then speak to someone who does.

Sin, I don't mind when you drop DnD because you wait for the consecrate. It's the people who drop it before I even engage the mobs completely that piss me off. It's actually never pulled from me yet but that's because I"m a paladin and if we look at things we get aggro? It's just that I didn't use it on my DK because it seemed like a tanking tool and not a dps tool so I'm puzzled at seeing it used so much.